Proposal to disable "Avoid Duplicates" on all ceph.io lists
Hello, Yesterday I copied dgallowa in "Heavily-linked lists.ceph.com pipermail archive now appears to lead to 404s" on ceph-users, but one of the subscribers reached out to me saying that they do not see him on the CC. This looks like a feature of mailman that has bitten others before: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2015-06/msg02639.html
mailman has an (extremely annoying, in my opinion) habit of munging cc: lines to drop the name of any recipient who has set their list delivery options to avoid duplicate messages where the recipient is in cc. Ultimately, the end user still gets the messages (reply-to-all gets the message back to the list, even though it drops the cc), but at the expense of not directly going to the inbox as desired. At least I still only get one copy of the message, but yes, I'd rather have that one copy come directly to me for all messages in the thread, rather than through the list because I was munged out of cc.
I hope that mailman3/hyperkitty will have saner defaults and not munge cc lists to exclude subscribers merely based on their preference on duplicate mail receipt.
Wow! You are right:
I checked my @redhat.com inbox and I see address@hidden has Kevin in CC.
I checked my @gmail.com inbox (subscribed to mailing list) and I see address@hidden does not have Kevin in CC.
I guess my @redhat.com email was received directly from Max because I was in CC list. It didn't pass through Mailman. I saw the original, unmodified list of CCs with Kevin included.
The @gmail.com email was received from the mailing list. Mailman did what you described.
This means I cannot send "Please CC maintainer" emails anymore because I cannot be sure whether the maintainer was CCed!
mailman3 that all ceph.io lists were transitioned to is apparently slightly saner in that this functionality is implemented as a handler, which can (hopefully!) be disabled by removing it from the pipeline: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/handlers/avoid_du... https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/handlers/docs/avo... I'm proposing that we disable this handler for all ceph.io lists. It confuses everyone and it's not clear if it is actually doing any good to anyone. gmail and other similar systems already deduplicate without munging the headers for everyone and folks who are filtering locally probably already have a generic rule for discarding duplicates. IMO the mailing list software should never touch To or Cc. Thoughts? Thanks, Ilya
I agree. The ceph-user list is so busy that one cannot manually check all the time if someone replied. I would like messages with me in cc to come to inbox as well as via the list. I believe I'm already hit by this problem. I don't think people on my threads receive the cc and they also don't check manually, so I got a bit stuck with problems due to this change. To reduce unwanted traffic, other lists have a feature that only the first mail of a thread reaches everyone. Further messages are only sent out if one explicitly subscribes to a thread. Everything is available on-line, but I get only first and important e-mails to my inbox. Messages added on-line of sent by e-mail are always sent to everyone subscribed to a thread. Does ceph.io offer a similar feature? Best regards, ================= Frank Schilder AIT Risø Campus Bygning 109, rum S14 ________________________________________ From: Ilya Dryomov <idryomov@gmail.com> Sent: 04 September 2019 12:05:27 To: dev@ceph.io; ceph-users Cc: David Galloway; Frédéric Nass Subject: [ceph-users] Proposal to disable "Avoid Duplicates" on all ceph.io lists Hello, Yesterday I copied dgallowa in "Heavily-linked lists.ceph.com pipermail archive now appears to lead to 404s" on ceph-users, but one of the subscribers reached out to me saying that they do not see him on the CC. This looks like a feature of mailman that has bitten others before: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2015-06/msg02639.html
mailman has an (extremely annoying, in my opinion) habit of munging cc: lines to drop the name of any recipient who has set their list delivery options to avoid duplicate messages where the recipient is in cc. Ultimately, the end user still gets the messages (reply-to-all gets the message back to the list, even though it drops the cc), but at the expense of not directly going to the inbox as desired. At least I still only get one copy of the message, but yes, I'd rather have that one copy come directly to me for all messages in the thread, rather than through the list because I was munged out of cc.
I hope that mailman3/hyperkitty will have saner defaults and not munge cc lists to exclude subscribers merely based on their preference on duplicate mail receipt.
Wow! You are right:
I checked my @redhat.com inbox and I see address@hidden has Kevin in CC.
I checked my @gmail.com inbox (subscribed to mailing list) and I see address@hidden does not have Kevin in CC.
I guess my @redhat.com email was received directly from Max because I was in CC list. It didn't pass through Mailman. I saw the original, unmodified list of CCs with Kevin included.
The @gmail.com email was received from the mailing list. Mailman did what you described.
This means I cannot send "Please CC maintainer" emails anymore because I cannot be sure whether the maintainer was CCed!
mailman3 that all ceph.io lists were transitioned to is apparently slightly saner in that this functionality is implemented as a handler, which can (hopefully!) be disabled by removing it from the pipeline: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/handlers/avoid_du... https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/handlers/docs/avo... I'm proposing that we disable this handler for all ceph.io lists. It confuses everyone and it's not clear if it is actually doing any good to anyone. gmail and other similar systems already deduplicate without munging the headers for everyone and folks who are filtering locally probably already have a generic rule for discarding duplicates. IMO the mailing list software should never touch To or Cc. Thoughts? Thanks, Ilya _______________________________________________ ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-leave@ceph.io
I agree. The ceph-user list is so busy that one cannot manually check all the time if someone replied. I would like messages with me in cc to come to inbox as well as via the list.
Some time ago I sent a message to the ostensible list owner, which seemed to be blackholed. I suggested limiting the number of messages in each digest and also limiting the max message size. When I receive a digest with 71 messages, many of which sport 500 quoted lines of text that should have been trimmed or moved to an external file, I’m disincented from even trying to read any of it.
participants (3)
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Anthony D'Atri
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Frank Schilder
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Ilya Dryomov