Additionally, to make this comparison fairer, we should also take into account not only the code we currently have, but the quality and features we could deliver by relying on mature yet-not-packaged dependencies (I'm thinking on typing-extensions, pydantic, websockets or fastapi among others). Bringing fresh dependencies into the project right now involves ensuring that they're available for a combination of ~5-6 distro-release pairs (Ubuntu, CentOS, OpenSUSE, FreeBSD ports) and that's often a showstopper. -- Ernesto On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:26 PM Alfonso Martinez Hidalgo <almartin(a)redhat.com> wrote:

Glad to see you here, John! Any past experience, recommendations on packaging and releasing formats or patterns for those virtualenvs? I remember that Juanmi was exploring pex ( https://github.com/pantsbuild/pex) for cephadm. Kind Regards, Ernesto On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 2:44 PM John Spray <jcspray(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, John! On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 9:57 PM John Spray &lt;jcspray(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- Alfonso Martínez Senior Software Engineer, Ceph Storage Red Hat <https://www.redhat.com> <https://red.ht/sig>

Oh... I think I was going to make some kind of footnote along the lines of "other than switching to another language" but then thought better of it :-) On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 12:30 PM Ernesto Puerta &lt;epuertat(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > > Thank you, John! > > BTW I looked for that "[1]" footnote in your reply but couldn't find any? > > Kind Regards, > Ernesto > > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 9:57 PM John Spray &lt;jcspray(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >> Hey Ernesto, >> >> I haven't used pex, it looks like it wants to generate executables, >> but they're zip files that include a dump of vendored packages (and it >> has an --inherit-path option to respect systemwide packages) so maybe >> it's a useful building block. >> >> To be honest I never ended up with an approach that made me happy[1]. >> My hazy recollection from hacking builds out of virtualenvs is that >> virtualenv tends to get a bit confusing in the interplay between >> --system-site-packages and dependency resolution for packages within >> the env (sorry to be vague, this was a few years ago). >> >> If I was doing it today, my starting point would be to keep it as >> simple as possible and unzip specific versions of packages into a >> tree, avoiding virtualenv (and the games it plays with import paths) >> if possible. That also keeps your vendoring very intentional, and >> avoids risk of sprawling second order dependencies + the associated >> supply chain risks. >> >> John >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 4:14 PM Ernesto Puerta &lt;epuertat(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >> > >> > Glad to see you here, John! >> > >> > Any past experience, recommendations on packaging and releasing formats or patterns for those virtualenvs? I remember that Juanmi was exploring pex (https://github.com/pantsbuild/pex) for cephadm. >> > >> > Kind Regards, >> > >> > Ernesto >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 2:44 PM John Spray &lt;jcspray(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >> >> >> From experience of doing this on a couple of other projects, the thing >> >> to watch out for is any python package with native/binary >> >> dependencies. Pure python dependencies are easy to embed, things with >> >> a binary component are usually not worth the trouble - your vendored >> >> python modules can and will break when the underlying .so gets updated >> >> in an unexpected way. Or to look at it another way, things with >> >> binary dependencies are worthwhile to manage as RPMs, because they >> >> have natural RPM dependencies for the libwhatever/libwhatever-devel >> >> that they wrap. >> >> >> >> You might also want to make sure anything that involves crypto is RPM >> >> packaged, to keep the single path for delivering critical fixes to >> >> those components. >> >> >> >> Annoyingly, the python packaging format doesn't make it easy to >> >> distinguish them - lots of things that "pip install" are actually >> >> compiling C code with undeclared header dependencies - so it comes >> >> down to careful review. >> >> >> >> John >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:23 PM Ernesto Puerta &lt;epuertat(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Additionally, to make this comparison fairer, we should also take into account not only the code we currently have, but the quality and features we could deliver by relying on mature yet-not-packaged dependencies (I'm thinking on typing-extensions, pydantic, websockets or fastapi among others). Bringing fresh dependencies into the project right now involves ensuring that they're available for a combination of ~5-6 distro-release pairs (Ubuntu, CentOS, OpenSUSE, FreeBSD ports) and that's often a showstopper. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Ernesto >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:26 PM Alfonso Martinez Hidalgo &lt;almartin(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> >> >> In the last weeks the mgr dashboard module has suffered several bugs >> >> >> related to python package versions: >> >> >> >> >> >> 1) mgr/dashboard: dashboard hangs when accessing it >> >> >> https://tracker.ceph.com/issues/48973 >> >> >> cheroot 8.5.1 was causing a hang: needed to upgrade to cheroot distro >> >> >> version 8.5.2 >> >> >> >> >> >> 2) mgr/dashboard: ERROR: test_a_set_login_credentials >> >> >> (tasks.mgr.dashboard.test_auth.AuthTest) >> >> >> https://tracker.ceph.com/issues/49574 >> >> >> >> >> >> Adapt code to PyJWT version >= 2.0.0 (our tests were relying on version==1.6.4) >> >> >> >> >> >> 3) No possibility to use (in nautilus branch) features from "six" >> >> >> package version >> >> >> like "ensure_text" (available in version >=1.12) due to the fact that >> >> >> distros like ubuntu bionic seem to be stuck on version 1.11 >> >> >> >> >> >> Taking into consideration all the above and the fact that version >> >> >> pinning/constraint can provide >> >> >> stability & reliability, e.g.: >> >> >> https://github.com/psf/requests/blob/master/setup.py#L44 >> >> >> https://github.com/tiangolo/fastapi/blob/master/pyproject.toml#L34 >> >> >> >> >> >> PROPOSAL: >> >> >> Including a virtualenv (or equivalent) in mgr(dashboard) packag(es) >> >> >> (created during build process) >> >> >> with some pinned dependencies so we are no longer dependent on system >> >> >> packages for the specified packages. >> >> >> >> >> >> We're already doing it for Dashboard Frontend (Angular Single Page >> >> >> App) npm dependencies: >> >> >> https://github.com/ceph/ceph/blob/master/src/pybind/mgr/dashboard/frontend/… >> >> >> >> >> >> PROS: >> >> >> * Stability: no longer exposed to potential bugs coming from >> >> >> side-effects of third-party decisions, >> >> >> like distro maintainers package upgrade policy. >> >> >> >> >> >> * Reliability: code tested against well-known package versions; avoid >> >> >> the problem of having >> >> >> disparity of package versions in several distros & distro releases. >> >> >> >> >> >> * Flexibility: possibility of using packages that right now are not >> >> >> available on all supported distros >> >> >> (or required version not available). >> >> >> >> >> >> CONS: >> >> >> * Package build size increase: we should measure the new size and >> >> >> maybe considering an incremental approach: >> >> >> as a first step, pinning only those packages that are "problematic" >> >> >> (have high version disparity across distros/releases, those not >> >> >> available on supported distros, etc). >> >> >> >> >> >> * Taking care of CVE-related security updates for pinned versions: >> >> >> 1 possibility is tracking the security updates with tools like this: >> >> >> https://docs.github.com/en/github/managing-security-vulnerabilities/configu… >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Let me know any other considerations that we should take into account. >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> Alfonso Martínez >> >> >> >> >> >> Senior Software Engineer, Ceph Storage >> >> >> >> >> >> Red Hat >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Dev mailing list -- dev(a)ceph.io >> >> > To unsubscribe send an email to dev-leave(a)ceph.io >> >> >>